I'm going to color code things so it's easier to read. The regular, italicized font will be my original post in which she's replying to. The pink, will be her response. The green, will be my response to hers. Hopefully she doesn't reply too much more or this will turn into one big monster rainbow of text.
As I mentioned on the phone, I will have to break this week’s blog down into portions to reply to. Also, I need some time to do some research on some of the topics that you’ve been studying for some time now. I will get to the entire blog though, I promise.
This first reply is to the section “Children”
“Considered child abuse/not considered child abuse” Picture, and your comment “when you tell a child ‘be good or God will stop loving you and you’ll go to hell…” –
All parents (good parents) teach their children morals based on their own values and belief systems. This is normal, healthy and necessary as children are not born knowing how to treat people or how to have self discipline or be concerned for others and must learn them.
These comments are an exaggerated response to Christian teachings and no Christian parent with a healthy mind and maturity would say that to their child. In fact it would be misrepresenting the teachings of God, turn many kids away from Him, and make God pretty mad.
Actually within each of us is our own kind of moral compass. Humans are not the only type of creature to possess this, there was actually a study done on monkeys to see if they had consciousness and a sense of "right and wrong," and they do. You can read more about it here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1145886/Monkeys-apes-know-right-wrong-scientists-say.html We don't need to be "taught" what's right and wrong. Christianity wants you to believe that because if you don't, there would be no need for the Bible anymore. I'll write more about that later on, it was one of my topics anyways.
‘ that child does not develop a proper sense of morality on his own’ –
the comment about ‘God will stop loving you and you’ll go to hell’ isn’t even teaching morality. It’s a form of spiritual abuse that, as I said above, a Christian parent with a healthy mind and maturity would not use.
I think you failed to grasp the whole point of my post, which is that there is no such thing as "a Christian parent with a healthy mind," because religion in itself is a mental distortion. I should also add that you and everyone/where you sent me to at a young age (bible study, nursery school) has said the same thing to me, that "If I make God mad he's sending me to hell." I think you have a diluted perspective of people and Christianity. You tend to focus on the small picture, aka each experience you have with individual people, instead of the big picture. On average, Christian parents are insane tyrants.
‘He no longer does things simply because "it's the right thing to do," but instead does them "because he's told to" or "he's scared of being punished.’
I do not believe there is anything wrong with a child obeying because he’s told to or because he is scared of being punished. That is how a person learns the reality of life and consequences to his/her actions … do right and be happyl or do wrong and pay the price.
Right, you are right. But the major difference between teaching children via negative reinforcement (which I don't think is a very good parenting method to begin with) and threatening them with horrifying images of eternal pain and torture for disobeying.
“When you introduce a person with that kind of mentality into the world, they can be incredibly dangerous. Imagine that kind of person being told he'll be punished if he doesn't blow himself up in a suicide bombing, that God wants him to do it and it's the right thing to do? It's not so hard to imagine, if you think about it. Just look at 9/11.They become brainless soldiers conditioned to act out any atrocity in the name of their religion without feeling any human remorse or guilt for that action, because "that's what the Bible tells them is morally acceptable."”
In my opinion this paragraph is filled with half truths. Introducing a person to the world with knowledge of consequences to his actions is not dangerous, unless he/she is a left-wing radical psychotic. And really, how many of them are there?? That doesn’t mean everyone who believes in God or who teaches their children right from wrong will turn out to be a left wing radical psychotic. Also, I don’t agree with the Muslam/Islam theology that if they commit suicide while doing sometime for God will guarantee them that they will go to heaven and have hundreds of virgins. I believe that committing suicide is a sin and they won’t go to heaven, also I believe committing murder is a sin which is what the pilots of 9/11 did.
Christians are left-wing radical psychotics. Religious people in general are. And excuse me but who are you to judge and accuse certain people of being psychotic? You're Christian. Firstly you're as bad as it gets, and secondly Christians aren't supposed to judge, they're supposed to love. Also you're misinformed again about Islam. Only certain sects of the religion encourage suicide bombing, radical groups like the Taliban. They are to Islam what Westboro Baptist Church are to Christians, but I'm not surprised you think this about Islam (which is the same as Muslim by the way) because Christians are taught from the early age of zero to hate and fear any religion that isn't their own, to ensure that they stay Christian. And why would they give a fuck about going to heaven when they don't believe in your heaven, they have their own rules? It's like an ancient Viking threatening you with disbarment from Valhalla, you'd laugh at him wouldn't you. And don't get me started on murder, that's another topic for another day infact it will probably be my next one, but Christians and Christianity have committed more murderous acts in the history of mankind than anything else combined. Your Bible glorifies it and infact issues it as punishment for many things, even simple things like talking back to your parents.
Children grown up in religious households also tend to lose their ability to make cognitive decisions on their own.
When did you EVER have no ability to make a cognitive decision? You have always been a strong willed person, with an absolute idea of what it is you wanted…. And I don’t believe I ever suggested you stop thinking.
You definitely tried to put me in a box for a long time, then when I came back from my dad's you stopped. You're right, I was always a strong willed person, but that's thanks to genetics.
Intellectualism is frowned upon.
Do you really believe that? You are an intelligent woman. I’ve always told you so, and have always encouraged you. I’ve always tried to get you to go to secondary schooling…. ????
YES I DO. We aren't talking about me so stop talking about me, we're talking about what the religion encourages or discourages as a social system. Christians teach their children to NOT seek out knowledge, anything that conflicts with what is taught in the Bible is "taboo" or "boycotted." What happened when I tried to look up things about witches and vampires on the computer? You grounded me. You claimed they were "evil." That's what Christians do to discourage the pursuit of knowledge.
A child is taught never to question, to follow blindly with "faith." They better they are at it, the more glorified they are in their community for having such "deep faith." Faith is the absence of proof, believing to believe. A person's brain simply cannot develop properly when it's deprived of simple learning techniques such as cognitive decision making.
Actually, we Christians are told to not blindly believe everything we hear, but to test everything. More than that, it is human nature to question and many times we need to discuss our concerns with friends and family or councilors to help with something we can’t figure out… such as WHY WHY WHY. How can you stop that? Even with a lot of faith, the brain still thinks, asks, questions, reasons…. How can that ‘deprive someone of simple learning techniques such as cognitive decision making?”
Please tell me where Christians are told to test everything, because I'm dying to know. I'm also dying to know why I haven't met a single Christian, yourself included while I was growing up, who has bothered to do so. Christians isolate themselves in their own societies and social groups away from the "secular" world. The only thing I can think of that even comes close to relating to what you 're talking about is Christians are encouraged to test everything THEY READ IN THE BIBLE. Of course you'd go to your pastors and family members to ask them things ABOUT THE BIBLE. Of course your pastors want YOU to go to THEM about your questions so they can give you a CHRISTIAN answer/spin on whatever you're wondering so you don't "stray from the flock."
Again, only if the parent is not mentally sound, healthy and mature. There are many forms of child abuse that a sick parent can force on a child -not just spiritually. But if the truths of God are taught to a child in a loving nurturing environment it cannot be considered child abuse. Teaching a child values, self-respect, self-discipline, value and respect for others is necessary. A child needs guidance and boundaries. As for my teaching you my morals and values based on my religious beliefs, at least you did not end up on the street as a prostitute or in jail because of using and selling drugs.
Again, a mentally sound Christian is an oxymoron which is what my whole post is about. Try reading it again with an open mind, not a Christian filtered one. And I find your "at least you did not end up on the streets as a prostitute or in jail" to be an incredibly ignorant statement. There are millions and millions of non Christian families that raise their children just fine with no thanks to "Christian morals" and none of their children become prostitutes or go to jail for drugs. And many Christian children DO become prostitutes or go to jail. I know one girl personally who claims to be Protestant yet she does pornographic films and is a stripper.
They claim that children are especially vulnerable to mental harms related to religion, including:
- Terrorized by threats of punishment, such as eternal damnation in a fiery hell
who ‘terrorizes their children?? Unless they’re sick
Christians do. Read the title of this post.
- Extreme guilt about normal, healthy sexual functions
it is necessary to teach children sexual boundaries and self respect, but only a sick parent would create extreme guilt (were these two author’s sexually abused as kids??)
Mocking the authors of this is incredibly ignorant and Christian of you ("were these two authors sexually abused as kids") as well as assumptuous. People don't need to experience an outrageous act to be against it, and people don't need to experience outrageous abuse just to speak out against something. To answer your question to further illustrate my point, no they were not. Christians DO instill extreme guilt over bodily functions, mainly masturbating and intercourse.
- Trained to disrespect science and reason
not true at all, reasoning is VITAL in all things, and there is much value in science. I personally have a problem with evolutionary science, but only because a lot of it is based on theory and not fact.
Creationism is based on theory and not fact, but you have no problem accepting creationism? And I do recall you saying you mainly believed in "both," which basically means you would accept anything without proof but you won't accept anything without proof, aka you're contradicting yourself.
- Indoctrinated into a particular religious faith, thus depriving the child of the opportunity to make their own free inquiry later, when they are mature
raising a child in a Christian home has never stopped any child from walking away from the parent’s beliefs when they became of an age of maturity. You see all kinds of examples, such as yourself and possibly some of your favorite atheist authors, so how can anyone ever say a Christian parent ‘deprived the child of the opportunity to make their own free inquiry later”? that comment is completely phony.
Actually, it has stopped some children from walking away when they become adults. They're threatened with excommunication out of their family, community, church, and sometimes town. A lot of Christian parents cease communications or threaten their children with it if they stop being Christian. I know of several friends in that situation right now, but you're right in reality that itself probably wouldn't stop people from leaving, it would be more of an encouragement to leave if the parents acted that way. But Christian parents still try.
Video re Christian War on children:
The evolutionists vs creationists controversy has been going on since Darwin. In both camps there are scientists, Christians, and non-religious. . Is it a war on children? Or is it another aspect of Christianity saying, this is what we believe in, and fighting for that belief. The evolution theory has had several decades of head start as they have been able to get into the schools under the heading of science. Christians are trying to catch up at the same time as religion is being banned from schools. In the video you see that many Christian parents are home-schooling their kids to protect them from what they believe is secular lies. But the evolution vs creation battle is huge, and I personally believe there is room for both and that we don’t need to focus on it as much as some people do. I believe it is a red herring that is keeping people fired up and away from issues that really matter.
No one should have the right to fight for ignorance. Christians don't believe in that. If believing in evolution was part of being Christian, then it would have been written in the Bible all those years ago and we wouldn't be having this stupid debate on Creationism vs Evolution today. And how fucking dare you even claim that Evolution has had several decades head start in schools?! It's only RECENTLY that it's even ALLOWED to be taught in schools, Creationism used to be THE ONLY THING taught in that regards in schools. Evolution was banned BY LAW for many years when it first because a recognized theory BECAUSE of Christians not wanting it taught to their children. Christians have had TWO FUCKING THOUSAND YEARS HEAD START. How can you even say that with a straight face? Religion has only now started being banned from schools, because more and more people are starting to realize what a sham it is and how it answers SO LITTLE QUESTIONS in comparison. And by the way hunny, Evolution IS a science. Calling it a "theory" does not discredit it from being an accepted science. In the scientific field, a "theory" means "principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory. Many non-scientifically educated people get this confused because the word "theory" sounds so very unofficial. In the scientific world, the word they use to describe something still under investigation and not yet accepted fully as a scientific practice is a "hypothesis." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis Evolution didn't "get into the schools UNDER the heading of science," it IS part of science. That's like saying World War II got into the schools UNDER the heading of history." Religion is being banned from schools because it religious lies have no place in our educational system.
That’s all for today, I’ll try to get to another section tomorrow before/after our day out at the Fair and supper,